Curse

Free Runner · Oct 05, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

With the coming of everyone’s favourite monarch of madness, Mad King Thorn I figured it would be nice to have a discussion on him. Note that the Mad King is a festival NPC that only serves to finish the Halloween festival, but he does in fact have some lore hidden away behind the mass slaying, undead heralds and mad jokes. At one point there was to be a Teller of Tales who was probably going to share more stories on the Mad King with us but alas the designer who had began creating him did not have time to finish this resulting in it not being added to the game.

Please do not jump in and say “Mad King shouldn’t be taken seriously in lore” – this is a borderline thread where the subject is on the brink of existing in the lore and existing for fun. Feel free to point out anything I may of missed.

When the moon rises high over Lion's Arch
And the wind moans through the most hollow of eves
Shutter your homes this holiday
Steer clear of the shadows
For on this night, they say,
A long-addled spirit returns from the grave
Pumpkin upon his head,
A wicked deed within his heart
A pint of witch's brew for all those who misbehave
Heed these words, all ye who dare enter here:
Bind your souls to the mortal realm
For the regent of madness draws near.

When sunlight wanes to shadow
And mists fill nights once clear
'Tis time to think of monarchs
Who visit once a year.

Hail, Thorn, the king demented,
Whose laughter fills the air
Where cunning gifts are given
With wit and deadly flair!

And as the season passes
Remember what you've seen
In Lion's Arch and Kamadan
On this good Halloween.

Mad King Thorn

A petulant lord
Belligerently bemoans
And sobbingly roams.

Helpless ornate shriek
And serenely giggling knives
You'll laugh for your lives!

Glumly impatient
Smiling with menacing grace
Maniacal face.

The Mad King is a spirit lord who travels to Tyria once every year on a certain day – All Hallows Eve. Before the day arrives, he is known to use his magic to influence his destinations – Lions Arch and Kamadan, Jewel of Istan. He also influences 2 more areas in Tyria, them being Droknars Forge and the Tomb of the Primeval Kings.

This magic is not dark evil magic, but instead magic that causes mischief with stunts such as changing a Krytan Citizen into a Bone Dragon and a Tengu into a Human (Which the Tengu is not happy about at all). Its hard to tell how this magic works but from what the victims say it happens overnight, possibly alluding to a “clock hits midnight” scenario that is famous in ghost stories. The magic also changes the environment making the fountain a cauldron and the moon look just as wicked as the King himself. Additionally Ghosts fly in the skies about the port towns. Mad King himself appears to be respected in the Underworld, enough to issue orders to the demonic guardians and ghouls that roam the realm of death.

Something else that marks his coming is the arrival of his 16 Horsemen and Bruce the Hereld. Bruce appears terrified that Thorn is coming and warns anyone and anything to get away. This gives the impression that Thorn is both revered and feared by his subjects. King Thorn also arrives surrounded by his loyal necromancer guards who I will come to after.
Additionally here are some some fun facts on him:

He is afraid of termites.
He hates the Tengu.
He is an enemy of the Skree.
He likes Mandragor soup.
Some believe he is the root of all evil.
He now resides somewere in The Underworld, as mentioned by one of his jokes.

Thorns Origins

Mad King was once a human king of Kryta. Due to the lack of family trees we cannot place him into a time period. When he was King its suggested by one of his quotes that he was a simple man rather than a 7ft spirit with a Pumpkin for a head. During his reign King Thorn had trouble with the Tengu who often caused chaos within Kryta. This grudge appears to last through to him becoming the Mad King.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Sorcien

The Mad King has a deep hatred for the Tengu who often caused chaos within thi kingdom of Kryta during his rule. These savage beasts must learn to fear the greatest ruler that Kryta has ever known!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad King Thorn

Now, as you all know, while I lived, my military genius was unsurpassed. I crushed every peasant revolt that rose up against me!. My army could not be defeated! My fleet was unsurpassed! Most impressive of all, I was the MASTER of that greatest test of strategic aptitude: ROCK-PAPER-SCISSORS!

He also implies that he was a military genius with an undefeated army and fleet that crushed any revolt that rose against him. Its hard to tell if he’s serious here due to him immediately placing Rock-Paper –Scissors on the same level as commanding an army. I would guess that he is indeed telling the truth and the Rock-Paper-Scissors comment comes from his own madness.

Thorns Relations with Elona

The following information is from two of Thorns horsemen and Thorn himself:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Jaysin

The Mad King shall return to Elona shortly. I do not believe he bears a grudge against the Elonian people for what happened to his bride all those years ago, nor the decades long war that followed. But to be safe, you would be wise to offer some tribute on this auspicious...and very dangerous...occasion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Maxilus

The Mad King originally came to Elona to take a bride: of course he first had to win her heart. he tried every gift he could think of, but it was the mask he fashioned from mandragor carapaces that finally won her over. Either that or the sword he held to her fathers throat. We must commemorate the joyous event of their sword point nuptials.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad King Thorn

Ah…it is good to be back in Kamadan. When I was a young man, I came all the way here from Kryta to woo the royal princess.

Thorn also had ties with Elona. He originally travelled to Elona and became interested in the royal princess there, whos name is currently unknown. This princess would become his future bride (through both charm and a sword to her fathers throat). However something happened to Thorns bride. While its unknown what happened (though its hinted to being the Elonians fault), this presumably sparked off a war. This war apparantly lasted decades however no such thing is shown in the timeline.

My own personal theory is that the Elonian princess was killed off by the Scarab Plague. This would mean Thorn was a prince or King around 452 AE. The only wars close on the timeline are the Pretender Wars (which was sparked due to pretenders claiming the throne) and the bloody civil wars of the Shattered Dynasty Era. Out of the two i would choose the Pretender Wars - her death meant no successor and obviously would mean the throne is empty.

Another possible albiet lesser theory is that the Princess was killed by Skree Harpies. One of the Horsemen notes that the Skree are an ancient enemy of the Mad King.

Mad King Thorns Appearence

Other than his obvious Pumpkin features, Thorn also wears armour very similar to King Adelbern of Ascalon.

While this could just be Anet using a partial reskin to base his armour off, i'm going to go with the second option - this being royal armour. The addition of the Evil Eye, frills and dark colour is most likely an after death effect.

Candy Corn Guards

One of the things associated with Thorn is the mysterious appearance of candy corn golems. These share a golem like appearance with the only difference being they are candy corn that appears to be animated. They can talk and act on the orders of humans, evidenced by their henchman service during the celebrations. Additionally a Tonic that the Horsemen give out turns you into a smaller version of one of these creatures.

Within the Underworld all of these Candy Golems appear to be respected as an Agent of the Mad King. They even hold the ablity to order creatures to not attack them, creatures such as the Aaxte who would otherwise be more than happy to rip up anyone who enters the Underworld alive.

In the description for these Tonics it makes it very clear that what your becoming, is a servant of Mad King.

Now this wouldn’t be a thread without some discussion topics. So here are some things I want to discuss:

- The Mad Kings appearance : when did he get this appearance and why?

- The Mad Kings sanity: When did he turn into this being of madness? Was it after his death or before? and is he evil or good?

- His status in death: Why is Thorn able to directly manipulate elements of the mortal realm? does he have some kind of envoy status within the Mists? or is he a special case altogether?

White Lies · Oct 05, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

I think he might be some kind of envoy, though i dont have much evidence to back it up.
If you think about other cultures that have multiple gods (whats the name of this kind of religious system btw?) they generaly have main gods, and then millions of other gods for the little things. Imagine that the Envoys were the Guild Wars version of these other gods: wiki says (shoot me now

, ive only gotten into lore recently) that the envoys we know of are charged with aiding the souls to the Mists, which could be why they are so well known, but also this would have been given to a god as a task in many other cultures due to the fact that these are the souls of the DEAD. And the dead are important people

. Wiki also says that the envoys were once terrible criminals, which may be whyMad King Thorn IS an envoy, maybe during his rain he commited terrible acts against his people or did horrible things in order to vanquish the enemy.
This is where my theory kind of falls apart though: wiki also says the envoys cannot directly affect the mortal realm. I dont think the King does, i just think he distorts everything for a while and then resets it afterwards

.
His madness could be related to the fact that though he is an envoy. Grenth had to give him an evoy status because of these crimes but could not trust him with the souls of the dead because of his cunning and power, even after death. To stop this Grenth erases all record of him from history and makes him mad. This means that all his followers can no longer follow somthing that supposedly never existed and he is no longer able to use his cunning agaisnt Grenth or the other envoys, meaning he can now aid souls over to the mists. But now a new problem faces Grenth: King Thorn is now incredably unpredictable, meaning that again he cannot be used to channel souls into the mists. Grenth now gives up and sends him to a hidden location in the Underworld hoping he will cause no trouble, but again he manages to wriggle out, first into the small acts that children play on each other, then into the larger acts such as a man faking his own death to see what people think.

I hope all that was coherent. Though for some reason i dout is :s

~Lies

EDIT: Shiro... damn it.

Free Runner · Oct 05, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Lies

Wiki also says that the envoys were once terrible criminals, which may be why Mad King Thorn IS an envoy, maybe during his rain he commited terrible acts against his people or did horrible things in order to vanquish the enemy.

That ties in with the good or bad question. Something i'm torn with is trying to decide if Thorn is good or bad. He talks like he was respected during his reign but then again that could of been because he made the citizens respect him or face death.

Though intrestingly all the envoys have mysterious appearences just like Mad King (though Mad King stands out much more than them and obviously has an appearence influenced by Halloween)

Quote:

This is where my theory kind of falls apart though: wiki also says the envoys cannot directly affect the mortal realm.

Dont trust Wiki as far as Lore Explanations go. I used it only to gather collectors and Mad King quotes. If you remember, Shiro was an envoy and he was able to affect the mortal realm to an extent. He was also able to kill 18 people with the click of a finger - something Mad King is also able to do. The other Enoys had the power to ressurect aswell - something Mad King can also do again. So Envoys can affect the mortal realm.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 05, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

At one point there was to be a Teller of Tales who was probably going to share more stories on the Mad King with us but alas he/she didn’t make it into the game. We’ll have to see if they make it this time.

Didn't know this. Now I want him in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

some dialogue from Halloween collectors is missing from the Wiki’s (Which appears to be the only place that has all the Halloween stuff recorded) collection so if you have any of the info regarding them feel free to add it.

Didn't know this either, I'll try to get them onto wiki this halloween.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Mad King Thorn

The Mad King is a spirit who travels to Tyria once every year on a certain day – All Hallows Eve. Before the day arrives, he is known to use his magic to influence his destinations – Lions Arch and Kamadan, Jewel of Istan. He also influences 2 more areas in Tyrian them being Droknars Forge and the Tomb of the Primeval Kings.

First, a minor correction in bold. Second, where does it say he is a spirit? I remember him being called Undead (note: although categorized the same in game mechanics, a spirit is not an Undead, it is dead.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

a Tengu into a Human (Which the Tengu is not happy about at all).

Uhh, where/when is/was this? I don't recall this at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Additionally here are some some fun facts on him:

He is afraid of termites.
He hates the Tengu.
He likes Mandragor soup.
Some believe he is the root of all evil.
He now resides somewere in The Underworld, as mentioned by one of his jokes.

I would like to know where you got the termite and Tengu thing, I don't recall such a thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Thorns Origins

Can't see anything wrong here. Although, again, I would like where the Tengu comment is. It will help with my Tengu research.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

- The Mad Kings appearance : when did he get this appearance and why?

- The Mad Kings sanity: When did he turn into this being of madness? Was it after his death or before? and is he evil or good?

- His status in death: Why is Thorn able to directly manipulate elements of the mortal realm? does he have some kind of envoy status within the Mists? or is he a special case altogether?

Sanity and Appearance: I think that it occured after death because of his joke:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crummy Joke

"When I first returned from the Land of the Dead, one of the fine citizens of Lion's Arch let out a cry: "Why King Thorn, you have a pumpkin on your head!"
"And I said, "Eh? So he repeated, "Milord, you have a pumpkin on your head!""
"And I said, "What? So he yelled, "Milord, you have a pumpkin on your head!""
"To which, I replied, "A thousand pardons, fine citizen, I cannot hear you. I HAVE A PUMPKIN ON MY HEAD!" HA HA HA HA HA!"

Bolded proves that before he returned from the Underworld (meaning before death) he didn't have a pumpkin for a head. Underlined suggests that he had courtesy, even after death. However, as these are a joke, it cannot be taken seriously, yet.

Status in Death: I think that Mad King Thorn is a Lich lord himself, like Khilbron and Palawa Joko. It is known that a Lich can control the weaker undead and that they are very strong. This can support his unusual high amount of power by being able to instantly kill people and change areas to his desire. He would just be much more powerful the Khilbron, and is able to move between the Underworld and Tyria (whether due to something he did in life, or due to the power he gained by becoming a lich).

Back to Insanity: I theorize, that the reason why Thorn is maddened, possibly the reason for his distorted figure, is that he fell into the Bone Pits and was transformed/maddened by the Realm of Torment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Lies

I think he might be some kind of envoy, though i dont have much evidence to back it up.
If you think about other cultures that have multiple gods (whats the name of this kind of religious system btw?) they generaly have main gods, and then millions of other gods for the little things.

You are thinking of a Polytheistic Religion (general term), the GW religion with the 5/6 gods is simply called "The True Gods" (as there is no name for the religion, the gods are just referred to as a group known as "The True Gods.")

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Lies

Imagine that the Envoys were the Guild Wars version of these other gods: wiki says (shoot me now

, ive only gotten into lore recently) that the envoys we know of are charged with aiding the souls to the Mists, which could be why they are so well known, but also this would have been given to a god as a task in many other cultures due to the fact that these are the souls of the DEAD. And the dead are important people

. Wiki also says that the envoys were once terrible criminals, which may be whyMad King Thorn IS an envoy, maybe during his rain he commited terrible acts against his people or did horrible things in order to vanquish the enemy.

Thorn, as far as we know, was a good king. Also, Envoys are not gods, mini-gods, or anything, they are the spirits of criminals given the job, as punishment, to guide the souls of the newly departed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Lies

His madness could be related to the fact that though he is an envoy. Grenth had to give him an evoy status because of these crimes but could not trust him with the souls of the dead because of his cunning and power, even after death. To stop this Grenth erases all record of him from history and makes him mad. This means that all his followers can no longer follow somthing that supposedly never existed and he is no longer able to use his cunning agaisnt Grenth or the other envoys, meaning he can now aid souls over to the mists. But now a new problem faces Grenth: King Thorn is now incredably unpredictable, meaning that again he cannot be used to channel souls into the mists. Grenth now gives up and sends him to a hidden location in the Underworld hoping he will cause no trouble, but again he manages to wriggle out, first into the small acts that children play on each other, then into the larger acts such as a man faking his own death to see what people think.

Reasonable, but if Grenth made Thorn mad, why didn't he change the other envoys, especially shiro's, personalities (Shiro was mad before, and that shows how bad having an insane Envoy works out).

Shiro is the main con to your argument here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

That ties in with the good or bad question. Something i'm torn with is trying to decide if Thorn is good or bad. He talks like he was repected during his reign but then again that could of been because he made the citizens respect him or face death.

Though intrestingly all the envoys have mysterious appearences just like Mad King (though Mad King stands out much more than them)

The other envoys don't really seem to take on weirder then how they were apperances. Take Shiro for example, 200 years as an envoy and he looks the exact same as the mortal version of him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Dont trust Wiki as far as Lore Explanations go. I used it only to gather collectors and Mad King quotes. If you remember Shiro was an envoy and he was able to affect the mortal realm to an extent. He was also able to kill 18 people with the click of a finger - something Mad King is also able to do. The other Enoys had the power to ressurect aswell - something Mad King can also do again.

I think that what is meant here, is that they cannot (as far as we know of course) affect the mortal world, not the mortal's life. Your examples are done through direct manipulation of souls, Mad King, exception of killing, is done to the physical world as well.

Free Runner · Oct 05, 2008, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

First, a minor correction in bold. Second, where does it say he is a spirit? I remember him being called Undead (note: although categorized the same in game mechanics, a spirit is not an Undead, it is dead.)

Theres a direct rhyme for Halloween 05 in my post that makes mention of him being a spirit. Other than that there are no refferences to him being a spirit or an Undead. So i put him into the Spirit catagory since there is no other mention of what he is exactly.

Quote:

Uhh, where/when is/was this? I don't recall this at all.

Its the Krytan Citizen in Lions Arch during Halloween. If you talk to him you will be told he is actually a Tengu (that being the reason why hes the only human in town compared to the other changes).

Here is what he has to say about it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male Krytan Citizen

"The Mad King has placed a curse of pure evil on me! Yesterday, I was a mighty Tengu Warrior! Today, I am but an ugly human. I would rather die than endure this shame!"

Quote:

I would like to know where you got the termite and Tengu thing, I don't recall such a thing.

Both the Termite and Tengu points are given by collectors. Here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Aramon

"Not many know it, but the Mad Kind is deathly afraid of termites. He would be horrified to find Elona crawling with them! We must rid the area of these nuisances before he returns!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Sorcein

"The Mad King has a deep hatred for the Tengu who often caused chaos within the kingdom of Kryta during his rule. These savage beasts must learn to fear the greatest ruler that Kryta has ever known!"

Quote:

The other envoys don't really seem to take on weirder then how they were apperances. Take Shiro for example, 200 years as an envoy and he looks the exact same as the mortal version of him.

I was actually taking about Courier Torivos(Who has an appearence resembeling a Minotaur) and Herald Demrikov.

Quote:

Thorn, as far as we know, was a good king.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad King Thorn

"Isn't this fun? I haven't enjoyed myself this much since I had that entire village skinned alive all those years ago!"

Quote:

I think that what is meant here, is that they cannot (as far as we know of course) affect the mortal world, not the mortal's life. Your examples are done through direct manipulation of souls, Mad King, exception of killing, is done to the physical world as well.

I was actually moreso talking about the change in Citizens though i guess Envoys would have a hard time changing the face of the moon. When i said could Thorn be some kind of Envoy i was actually leaning towards him being a different type with the same kind of powers - i doubt the actual Envoys get days off. Though the fact he only appears on Halloween could indicate that he is only able to enter the mortal world on that day (and build up his magic in the days running up to it)

Konig Des Todes · Oct 05, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Theres a direct rhyme for Halloween 05 in my post that makes mention of him being a spirit. Other than that there are no refferences to him being a spirit or an Undead. So i put him into the Spirit catagory since there is no other mention of what he is exactly.

Seems your right, I recall it being on the website for '06, but was apparently wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

I was actually taking about Courier Torivos(Who has an appearence resembeling a Minotaur) and Herald Demrikov.

Torivos, as far as we know, might have been something of a minotaur. Although, to me even in the concept art, it looks like the bull head is just a mask. Demrikov doesn't look misshapen at all. Only thing out of place would be the object protruding into his skull. Probably what killed him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad King Thorn

"Isn't this fun? I haven't enjoyed myself this much since I had that entire village skinned alive all those years ago!"

This could have been done after his death. It says "all those years ago" but never saying that he was alive at the time. We also, as you said, don't know when he lived, so he could have been alive much longer then "all those years ago."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

I was actually moreso talking about the change in Citizens though i guess Envoys would have a hard time changing the face of the moon. When i said could Thorn be some kind of Envoy i was actually leaning towards him being a different type with the same kind of powers - i doubt the actual Envoys get days off. Though the fact he only appears on Halloween could indicate that he is only able to enter the mortal world on that day (and build up his magic in the days running up to it)

I would just argue that he has enough power (from being a lich) to rival the powers granted to an Envoy.

Interesting thing I found:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW Halloween '07 page

A returning favorite, the wandering Teller of Tales, will once again delight audiences with his stories of woe in both Lion's Arch and Kamadan.

Returning? I need to look into this!

Edit: I see now... darn misleading official website.

Gmr Leon · Oct 06, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

This could have been done after his death. It says "all those years ago" but never saying that he was alive at the time. We also, as you said, don't know when he lived, so he could have been alive much longer then "all those years ago."

Except that it says: "since I had that village skinned alive". The I seems to indicate to me that he ordered it himself.

Free Runner · Oct 06, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

This could have been done after his death. It says "all those years ago" but never saying that he was alive at the time. We also, as you said, don't know when he lived, so he could have been alive much longer then "all those years ago."

As mentioned by GmrLeon it sounds like he ordered people to do rather than him going to a village and skinning everyone alive. You could argue that his current servants may of carried out the order but why would he be skinning villages as the Mad King? it seems more like something a king would do to those who disobey him (Like how he mentions crushing revolts)

Quote:

I would just argue that he has enough power (from being a lich) to rival the powers granted to an Envoy.

We dont know if hes a lich though. Like i said - what he is fits so many different things and at the same time seems like something completely new.

Quote:

Interesting thing I found:
Returning? I need to look into this!

Edit: I see now... darn misleading official website.

The Teller of Tales was supposed to appear at both the 06 and 07 one however both times Anet ran out of time programming him and left it. Like i said we will have to see if he appears this time.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 06, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Except that it says: "since I had that village skinned alive". The I seems to indicate to me that he ordered it himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

As mentioned by GmrLeon it sounds like he ordered people to do rather than him going to a village and skinning everyone alive. You could argue that his current servants may of carried out the order but why would he be skinning villages as the Mad King? it seems more like something a king would do to those who disobey him (Like how he mentions crushing revolts)

He probably did order it, but he could have ordered some undead to do it, after his death. Both equally possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

We dont know if hes a lich though. Like i said - what he is fits so many different things and at the same time seems like something completely new.

I never said he was, just that I believe he is a lich, and that due to that, he has powers that can rival an envoy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

The Teller of Tales was supposed to appear at both the 06 and 07 one however both times Anet ran out of time programming him and left it. Like i said we will have to see if he appears this time.

Figured that out on wiki. Hence the edit.

Although, I don't see how they ran out of time for 07. They had over a year to work on him! (when they started in 06 to the week before Halloween 07). Now they have had 2 years... let's hope that he is going to have lots of info, no reason why he shouldn't with 2 years.

White Lies · Oct 07, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Now they have had 2 years... let's hope that he is going to have lots of info, no reason why he shouldn't with 2 years.

Anti-climax in 3....2.....1....BOOM.

Back on topic: i did a bit of thinking and ive come to the conclusion that shiro was granted the position as envoy because of his devotedness to a cause if it involved possible power (this came from his madness) but that is for a diffrent thread.

I think Mr. Mad Thorn on the other hand might've been brought back from the dead as a restless soul: some villagers pillage his grave, find his corpse and shove a pumkin on his head as a form of revenge for all the horrible things hes done to them in the past. The madness could be due to the fact that whilst he was still a 'new' gost he had no power at all over the mortals that had disturbed him and so could not reek his mighty vengence upon them (whoo, long sentence). Over time he gradualy learned how to manipulate and control the magic that kept him held to this terrible mortal world to a point where he was visible to mortals and could distort reality for a certain time. BUT this action of vengence takes up so much of his magic-gost energy that he then fades away for the rest of the year slowly siphoning his energy back until yet again he is able to appear and torment the lives of the mortals.

Whoo. All that is just hypothesis though.
Oh, and just a thought: what if the vilagers that desercrated his grave were tengus? would explain about his hatred towards them.
And how about this: hes terrified of turmites because after the tengus desercrated his grave, they got in and he had to watch them slowly eat his corpse. That would scare me to death lol.
Mandagor soup could be related to a joke in RL but i cant think of it atm.

Wow. Right.

~Lies

Konig Des Todes · Oct 07, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

More of his body is made out of a pumpkin then just the head. Look at his hands, they are orange and green, like a vine from a pumpkin or something.

So it's his whole body that was changed, not simply a pumpkin on his head, but a pumpkin for his head.

I think the halloween gig is just for enjoyment, a vacation, or something of the like, not vengeance. In other words, he does the halloween thing because he's mad, not angry.

If he were to have vengeance on anyone who desecrated his grave, making them serve him would be a grand punishment, and one fit for a un/dead lord. So if there were anyone that he had vengeance on, it would be his many necrid horsemen. Or his Candy Guards (risk of being eaten, I'd hate that).

His hatred for Tengu is that they were a major pain in the arse for him while alive.

Termites, unexplained, probably just one of your common phobias from when he was alive (such as arachnophobia, no reason to fear spiders, but they fear them).

Mandagor soup isn't a joke, IT'S TASTY! lol Gives you a sugar rush ^^

draxynnic · Oct 08, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Actually, to nitpick, there is a reason to fear spiders - because spiders are poisonous, in some cases enough to kill. Arachnophobia, in this case, is likely an evolutionary adaptation to help our ancestors (and young children) recognise that webs and things with eight legs are likely to be more dangerous than they appear.

(I live in Australia, and more than once I've found redbacks in or near the house. I make it a policy to terminate with extreme prejudice whenever I do.)

That's not to say that there aren't people out there with unexplained phobias to silly things, just that arachophobia is in fact a very understandable phobia to have.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 08, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Yeah, and there are studies starting to prove that morality is a evolutionary trait as well. (Don't recall specifics, but two certain questions were asked while people were having their brain scanned for activity, and two certain parts light up *one each question*, it's being thought, one is the logical thinking to it, the other is the "inner chimp" *as it is called*). Interesting stuff that was, too bad I don't recall it specifically. But that's another story.

My point above was that a lot of people fear bugs (most of which have little harm), so the termite thing might be a phobia that was learned in his life *and not because his body has termites in it, that would probably get him to freak out more then be insane or fear the things*.

Free Runner · Oct 08, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Insects in Tyria are not your average pin sized ones. So i wouldnt really say its an irrational fear. If anything it could say Thorn did not travel alot, hence his fear of them (Since heroes travelling around Tyria come across them alot and would of grown used to it). His fear may not stop at Termites but also Spiders. Or perhaps he fears Termites due to him pretty much being a pumpkin (and we dont know the diets of the Termites of Tyria but those Termites may focus attention on a walking Pumpkin)

Something i would like to point out is the collector for centaur manes. His dialogue is missing but its ether one of two things: The Horseman wants them collected for the hell of it or Thorn also has a problem with Centaurs. There is also a collector for White Mantle Emblems which could prove useful. I'll add the collector quotes when the event rolls in.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 08, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

I'll be putting up all the collector dialogues on wiki when the event comes, so I may get them before you

. It's a race I say!

Current list of missing collector item dialogues:
-White Mantle Emblem
-Copper Shillings
-Silver Bullion Coins
-Fledgling Skree Wings
-Chunk of Drake Flesh
-Sentient Roots (although there is another collector of these with a dialogue, so it might be the same)
-Mandragor Carapaces (although there is another collector of these with a dialogue, so it might be the same)
-Maguuma Manes

there are 8 collectors with missing dialogues (two might be the same as existing ones), so that means that these either are hatred, feared, retribution for not celebrating, or an offering.

This thread will pretty much be complete after this Halloween. Until next year that is.

draxynnic · Oct 10, 2008, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Yeah, and there are studies starting to prove that morality is a evolutionary trait as well. (Don't recall specifics, but two certain questions were asked while people were having their brain scanned for activity, and two certain parts light up *one each question*, it's being thought, one is the logical thinking to it, the other is the "inner chimp" *as it is called*). Interesting stuff that was, too bad I don't recall it specifically. But that's another story.

I'm not sure if it's that specific one, but I did come across a study that posited that while individual evolution promoted selfishness, group evolution promoted selflessness. Basically, while selfishness makes the individual stronger within the group, a community with a high proportion of selfless individuals is more likely to survive than one with more selfish individuals, providing an evolutionary pressure for selflessness to overcome that for selfishness.

The interesting part was that this was then applied to explain the rise and fall of empires. According to the theory, an empire rises when a community has a large proportion of selfless individuals who work together to defeat their enemies, absorb the survivors in a way that doesn't make them revolt, and make the community powerful. Once the empire grows powerful enough that it doesn't really have any competition from the outside, however, the evolutionary pressure towards selflessness fades leaving only the pressure towards selfishness, and when a community of more community-minded people grows big enough to threaten it, the empire is too busy with internal politics and backstabbing to be able to put up a strong resistance.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 18, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Sad news, sad news indeed...

When someone brought up a question about the Teller of Tales to Linsey, here is her response...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsey

I guess the writer of the page didn't include the poem this time. Sorry.

The Teller of Tales is something that Colin had come up with way back as part of the first Halloween festival, but was cut for technical reasons and I guess that fact never made it to the people making the announcements. If I have time next year, I'll try to see if we can revive the idea and put it into the festival. - Linsey talk 21:47, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, we can wait a year.... Hopefully it will actually be done then...

Free Runner · Oct 18, 2008, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Yeah i saw it yesterday and added a note on my post. Still the good news is Halloween rolls in early meaning the collectors quotes will be able to be added to this thread to make the post much more complete.

Karuro · Oct 21, 2008, 11:40 AM // 11:40

On the note of King Thorn's body being all.. Pumpkin..
Did the thought that he was actually "possessing a pumpkin" ever cross your min? He surely acts mad enough to do it

His ghostly form alone wouldn't be "scary" enough for modern day Tyria, so he possesses a a load of pumpkins, grabs the clothing from his grave and starts creating havoc.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 21, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

That is an interesting thought Karuro. And very likely. This may mean that he is more like a Construct then an Undead or Spirit.

But there would still be a question: Where does all his power come from?